Discussion:
Putting faith in Scouting
(too old to reply)
Fred Goodwin, CMA
2008-07-25 04:06:42 UTC
Permalink
Putting faith in Scouting

<http://www.dwtx.org/index.php?module=uploads&func=download&fileId=37>
http://tinyurl.com/5osdv5

July / August, 2008
Caroline Parke
The Church News

St. Paul’s Church in Brownsville has found a way to attract one of the
most elusive demographics in the Episcopal Church: middle school boys.
The parish’s inspired method for drawing the attention of adolescent
males relies on the Boy Scouts of America, an organization with a
longstanding reputation for its winning mixture of fun and discipline.

The Rev. Chuck Sharrow, vicar of St. Paul’s, commented that the recent
connection of a successful Boy Scout Troop to the St. Paul’s community
has proven a significant opportunity for outreach. He remarked that
appeal of scouting to a young, male demographic has been especially
effective given that “a lot of times it’s difficult to get middle
school age boys into church.” Sharrow is among many in the St. Paul’s
community who attest that sponsorship of the Boy Scout troop serves as
a “vehicle to introduce [Scouts] to Jesus.”

As one who has come through the middle school years and is still
active in Scouting, Marcos Gracia embodies the combination of scouting
and faith found at St. Paul’s. A recent graduate of Hannah High School
in Brownsville, he has attended St. Paul’s for seven years. About two
years ago, his Boy Scout Troop, 214, transferred from another
sponsoring organization to St. Paul’s Church.

Throughout the time that St. Paul’s has sponsored Troop 214, Gracia
has been an integral part of both troop and church activities. So much
so, that this year he achieved the rank of Eagle Scout by organizing
and executing a service project: the renovation of the St. Paul’s food
bank. His mission was “to remodel the St. Paul’s food bank; that
consisted of painting, putting in a new floor, building new tables,
installing new lamps, cleaning” and renovating the whole space. This
particular project is important to him, he says, because: “I was
thinking months ago about things that I could do, and when I was
praying what I could do . . . I was very proud to remodel a place that
is in this church, not even for Eagle rank. When I was praying, I was
asking God to give me one chance to do something big for this church.”

Gracia has accomplished something big not only for St. Paul’s, but for
the other boys in his troop. Assistant scoutmaster, guitarist for the
Ministry of Music, and founder of the church’s soccer team, Gracia is
“involved in everything” he can be around the church, and he feels
that his recruiting of boys to be members of Troop 214 opens the door
for God to recruit them to be members of His church.

The troop currently numbers about ten, and each member is responsible
for bringing a visitor to each week’s Thursday meeting. “Every boy
goes to different places to talk about the things we do and [others]
come and they see the meeting, and if they like it, they stay.”

Gracia adds that when new boys “come and see us doing things in the
troop and learning the things we do, we invite them to come to the
service.” Gracia said he hopes his success in achieving the rank of
Eagle Scout will encourage other members of Troop 214 to do the same.

Though already a high school graduate, Gracia plans to continue
encouraging the troop in years to come. Next year, he will attend the
University of Texas at Brownsville and plans to devote his time “in
the afternoons” to helping the troop, doing all he can to helping
other boys achieve Eagle rank” as he did. Additionally, Gracia said
Putting faith in Scouting that he would like “to involve more kids in
this troop because we have a relationship with God, and from it they
can learn a lot of things, they can learn anything.”

Gracia and Sharrow agree that sponsoring the Boy Scout troop exposes
the boys to the community of faith, and serves as a bridge connecting
new and old scouts to church activities like youth group.

As is evident in the example of its first Eagle Scout, Marcos Gracia,
St. Paul’s Boy Scout Troop 214 is empowering young men through
scouting and through Jesus, equipping them to serve both the church
and the world.
Dana Prescott
2008-07-25 08:12:02 UTC
Permalink
This item almost achieves the category of "rare GOOD NEWS on a.r.c.e.
for a change!" I'm sure all the folks doing this outreach work at the
local level are fine and wonderful people.

However, and alas, it also needs to be said, in simple fairness, that
the "good news" is clouded by the BSA's officially declared bigotry
and discrimination against gay people -- whether boys or leaders --
and also against certain classes of "religious non-believers". Full
information here:

http://tinyurl.com/r3npo

I actually love the concept (and the achievement) of Scouting. During
the 1950s and early 1960s, it was one of the best things a boy could
be involved in, to socialize him into working harmoniously (and having
fun!) with his peers, and to be connected with caring adult role
models. It's just a crying shame that BSA "bought into" the paranoid
witch hunt mentality, which arose during the retrograde Ronald Reagan
neocon years, and which has yet to be fully overcome, at least here in
the United States.

For the record, the Canadian Scouting Association allows NO
discrimination whatsoever to be based on sexual preference, religious
affiliation, or lack thereof. And they're doing "just fine, thank you
very much". It's the Americans -- typically -- who have lost their way
on this issue, and become somewhat crazed in their social bigotry.
Fred Goodwin, CMA
2008-07-25 21:51:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dana Prescott
For the record, the Canadian Scouting Association allows NO
discrimination whatsoever to be based on sexual preference,
religious affiliation, or lack thereof. And they're doing "just
fine, thank you very much".
You might want to check the membership decline for Scouts Canada
before declaring them to be doing just fine:

Rate of decline increasing: Scouts Canada had a 15% membership
decline during 1990-1995 and during 1995-2000, but during,
2000-2005, decline was 40%.

http://scouteh.ca/rally/rescue-rally-pamphlet.pdf
j***@satx.rr.com
2008-07-26 03:39:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred Goodwin, CMA
Putting faith in Scouting
<http://www.dwtx.org/index.php?module=uploads&func=download&fileId=37>http://tinyurl.com/5osdv5
July / August, 2008
Caroline Parke
The Church News
St. Paul’s Church in Brownsville has found a way to attract one of the
most elusive demographics in the Episcopal Church: middle school boys.
The parish’s inspired method for drawing the attention of adolescent
males relies on the Boy Scouts of America, an organization with a
longstanding reputation for its winning mixture of fun and discipline.
The Rev. Chuck Sharrow, vicar of St. Paul’s, commented that the recent
connection of a successful Boy Scout Troop to the St. Paul’s community
has proven a significant opportunity for outreach. He remarked that
appeal of scouting to a young, male demographic has been especially
effective given that “a lot of times it’s difficult to get middle
school age boys into church.” Sharrow is among many in the St. Paul’s
community who attest that sponsorship of the Boy Scout troop serves as
a “vehicle to introduce [Scouts] to Jesus.”
As one who has come through the middle school years and is still
active in Scouting, Marcos Gracia embodies the combination of scouting
and faith found at St. Paul’s. A recent graduate of Hannah High School
in Brownsville, he has attended St. Paul’s for seven years. About two
years ago, his Boy Scout Troop, 214, transferred from another
sponsoring organization to St. Paul’s Church.
Throughout the time that St. Paul’s has sponsored Troop 214, Gracia
has been an integral part of both troop and church activities. So much
so, that this year he achieved the rank of Eagle Scout by organizing
and executing a service project: the renovation of the St. Paul’s food
bank. His mission was “to remodel the St. Paul’s food bank; that
consisted of painting, putting in a new floor, building new tables,
installing new lamps, cleaning” and renovating the whole space. This
particular project is important to him, he says, because: “I was
thinking months ago about things that I could do, and when I was
praying what I could do . . . I was very proud to remodel a place that
is in this church, not even for Eagle rank. When I was praying, I was
asking God to give me one chance to do something big for this church.”
Gracia has accomplished something big not only for St. Paul’s, but for
the other boys in his troop. Assistant scoutmaster, guitarist for the
Ministry of Music, and founder of the church’s soccer team, Gracia is
“involved in everything” he can be around the church, and he feels
that his recruiting of boys to be members of Troop 214 opens the door
for God to recruit them to be members of His church.
The troop currently numbers about ten, and each member is responsible
for bringing a visitor to each week’s Thursday meeting. “Every boy
goes to different places to talk about the things we do and [others]
come and they see the meeting, and if they like it, they stay.”
Gracia adds that when new boys “come and see us doing things in the
troop and learning the things we do, we invite them to come to the
service.” Gracia said he hopes his success in achieving the rank of
Eagle Scout will encourage other members of Troop 214 to do the same.
Though already a high school graduate, Gracia plans to continue
encouraging the troop in years to come. Next year, he will attend the
University of Texas at Brownsville and plans to devote his time “in
the afternoons” to helping the troop, doing all he can to helping
other boys achieve Eagle rank” as he did. Additionally, Gracia said
Putting faith in Scouting that he would like “to involve more kids in
this troop because we have a relationship with God, and from it they
can learn a lot of things, they can learn anything.”
Gracia and Sharrow agree that sponsoring the Boy Scout troop exposes
the boys to the community of faith, and serves as a bridge connecting
new and old scouts to church activities like youth group.
As is evident in the example of its first Eagle Scout, Marcos Gracia,
St. Paul’s Boy Scout Troop 214 is empowering young men through
scouting and through Jesus, equipping them to serve both the church
and the world.
May I say the Scout Troop at St. George Episcopal
San Antonio, Texas has been great for my oldest
grandson. Thanks again Fred!

Pax Christi,

Jim



2Es 8:33 - For the just, which have many good works laid up with thee,
shall out of their own deeds receive reward.
Dana Prescott
2008-07-26 04:01:27 UTC
Permalink
Indeed, Fred and Jim, I've already expressed my great personal support
for Scouting "in principle" -- at least for the way it used to be
practiced when I was growing up -- but not for the sort of social
bigotry and discrimination which only came into play during the
(rabidly homophobic) Reagan years in the United States.

If either of you has the answers to the following questions, I'd be
delighted to hear them. Google hasn't been of much help in answering
the questions.

1. Has participation in Scouting in the United States GROWN or
DECREASED or TRACKED CLOSELY in comparison to the referenced Canadian
statistics?

2. Has participation in Scouting in Britain and Europe GROWN or
DECREASED or TRACKED CLOSELY in comparison to the referenced Canadian
statistics?

Knowing how the non-discriminatory Canadian and European Scouting
regimes are doing -- in comparison to the American discriminatory
regime -- would be a very interesting and useful piece of information
to factor.

The final comment I would make is that, at least here in (liberal) New
England, most of our local Scout troops are frankly appalled and
embarrassed by the hateful discriminatory policies of BSA National,
and they simply DO NOT enforce those policies in their own community
activities. They wish that BSA National would get a clue, and
officially repeal those hateful policies, which generate endless
hassles when it comes to seeking grants of support from civic
organizations and from political entities (such as cities and towns).
j***@satx.rr.com
2008-07-26 04:18:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dana Prescott
Indeed, Fred and Jim, I've already expressed my great personal support
for Scouting "in principle" -- at least for the way it used to be
practiced when I was growing up -- but not for the sort of social
bigotry and discrimination which only came into play during the
(rabidly homophobic) Reagan years in the United States.
If either of you has the answers to the following questions, I'd be
delighted to hear them. Google hasn't been of much help in answering
the questions.
1. Has participation in Scouting in the United States GROWN or
DECREASED or TRACKED CLOSELY in comparison to the referenced Canadian
statistics?
2. Has participation in Scouting in Britain and Europe GROWN or
DECREASED or TRACKED CLOSELY in comparison to the referenced Canadian
statistics?
Knowing how the non-discriminatory Canadian and European Scouting
regimes are doing -- in comparison to the American discriminatory
regime -- would be a very interesting and useful piece of information
to factor.
The final comment I would make is that, at least here in (liberal) New
England, most of our local Scout troops are frankly appalled and
embarrassed by the hateful discriminatory policies of BSA National,
and they simply DO NOT enforce those policies in their own community
activities. They wish that BSA National would get a clue, and
officially repeal those hateful policies, which generate endless
hassles when it comes to seeking grants of support from civic
organizations and from political entities (such as cities and towns).
As a parent and grandparent, all I am
interested in is a safe and fun place
for my oldest grandchild. No need to
make everything a political issue.
I guess, I am naive?

Jim

Mt 18:6 - But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which
believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged
about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Fred Goodwin, CMA
2008-07-28 13:52:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dana Prescott
1. Has participation in Scouting in the United States GROWN or
DECREASED or TRACKED CLOSELY in comparison to the referenced
Canadian statistics?
As I'm sure you're aware, membership in BSA is down somewhat since
1998; here are the figures from a recent SCOUTS-L post:

Cub Scouts Boy Scouts Venturing Total
---------- ---------- --------- -----
1998 2,171,987 1,023,442 188,010 3,383,439
1999 2,166,289 1,023,691 202,164 3,392,144
2000 2,114,420 1,003,691 233,858 3,351,969
2001 2,043,478 1,005,592 276,434 3,325,504
2002 2,000,478 1,010,791 293,323 3,304,592
2003 1,914,425 997,398 288,395 3,200,218
2004 1,875,752 988,995 280,584 3,145,331
2005 1,745,324 943,426 249,948 2,938,698
2006 1,701,861 922,836 244,266 2,868,963
2007 1,687,986 913,588 254,259 2,855,833

Just taking the totals, Scouting membership is down 8.4% since 1998;
not as dramatic as the Canadian numbers, but down nonetheless.
Post by Dana Prescott
Knowing how the non-discriminatory Canadian and European Scouting
regimes are doing -- in comparison to the American discriminatory
regime -- would be a very interesting and useful piece of
information to factor.
To those who attribute BSA's membership decline to its policies: one
wonders why Scouts Canada, with even more liberal membership policies,
suffers even steeper declines?
Stephen Henning
2008-08-02 14:28:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred Goodwin, CMA
Post by Dana Prescott
1. Has participation in Scouting in the United States GROWN or
DECREASED or TRACKED CLOSELY in comparison to the referenced
Canadian statistics?
As I'm sure you're aware, membership in BSA is down somewhat since
Cub Scouts Boy Scouts Venturing Total
---------- ---------- --------- -----
1998 2,171,987 1,023,442 188,010 3,383,439
1999 2,166,289 1,023,691 202,164 3,392,144
2000 2,114,420 1,003,691 233,858 3,351,969
2001 2,043,478 1,005,592 276,434 3,325,504
2002 2,000,478 1,010,791 293,323 3,304,592
2003 1,914,425 997,398 288,395 3,200,218
2004 1,875,752 988,995 280,584 3,145,331
2005 1,745,324 943,426 249,948 2,938,698
2006 1,701,861 922,836 244,266 2,868,963
2007 1,687,986 913,588 254,259 2,855,833
Just taking the totals, Scouting membership is down 8.4% since 1998;
not as dramatic as the Canadian numbers, but down nonetheless.
Post by Dana Prescott
Knowing how the non-discriminatory Canadian and European Scouting
regimes are doing -- in comparison to the American discriminatory
regime -- would be a very interesting and useful piece of
information to factor.
To those who attribute BSA's membership decline to its policies: one
wonders why Scouts Canada, with even more liberal membership policies,
suffers even steeper declines?
These numbers ignore Learning For Life. A BSA council includes LFL in
their numbers. Our council has grown continuously since 1989, but most
of the growth occurs in LFL since it took over Exploring in 1998 which
is also the year that Venturing was created in the BSA.

LFL is an arms-length subsidiary of the BSA that has no oath or laws
that would conflict with government or ACLU concerns. Exploring and
many in-school programs are completely under the LFL banner but are
included in a council's membership numbers, since a council serves both
programs.

In 2005 LFL had 1,648,133 youth members and
in 2006 LFL had 1,750,767 youth members.

This growth of 100,000 members easily compensates for the loss of 70,000
members in traditional BSA programs.

The 2006 total of BSA + LFL is 4,606,600. Membership in the BSA was
less than 4.6 million in 1997. So in the last 10 years Scouting
including the LFL programs has grown slightly.
--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to ***@earthlink.net
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA - http://scouters.us
user1
2008-08-06 02:35:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred Goodwin, CMA
Post by Dana Prescott
1. Has participation in Scouting in the United States GROWN or
DECREASED or TRACKED CLOSELY in comparison to the referenced
Canadian statistics?
As I'm sure you're aware, membership in BSA is down somewhat since
Cub Scouts Boy Scouts Venturing Total
---------- ---------- --------- -----
1998 2,171,987 1,023,442 188,010 3,383,439
1999 2,166,289 1,023,691 202,164 3,392,144
2000 2,114,420 1,003,691 233,858 3,351,969
2001 2,043,478 1,005,592 276,434 3,325,504
2002 2,000,478 1,010,791 293,323 3,304,592
2003 1,914,425 997,398 288,395 3,200,218
2004 1,875,752 988,995 280,584 3,145,331
2005 1,745,324 943,426 249,948 2,938,698
2006 1,701,861 922,836 244,266 2,868,963
2007 1,687,986 913,588 254,259 2,855,833
Just taking the totals, Scouting membership is down 8.4% since 1998;
not as dramatic as the Canadian numbers, but down nonetheless.
8.4% = bad math ???


cub scouts boy scouts venturing total
1998 2171987 1023442 188010 3383439
1999 2166289 1023691 202164 3392144
2000 2114420 1003691 233858 3351969
2001 2043478 1005592 276434 3325504
2002 2000478 1010791 293323 3304592
2003 1914425 997398 288395 3200218
2004 1875752 988995 280584 3145331
2005 1745324 943426 249948 2938698
2006 1701861 922836 244266 2868963
2007 1687986 913588 254259 2855833

% loss 22.28 10.73 -35.24 15.59
(since 1998)
Fred Goodwin, CMA
2008-08-13 05:36:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by user1
Post by Fred Goodwin, CMA
Post by Dana Prescott
1. Has participation in Scouting in the United States GROWN or
DECREASED or TRACKED CLOSELY in comparison to the referenced
Canadian statistics?
As I'm sure you're aware, membership in BSA is down somewhat since
      Cub Scouts  Boy Scouts  Venturing       Total
      ----------  ----------  ---------       -----
1998   2,171,987   1,023,442    188,010   3,383,439
1999   2,166,289   1,023,691    202,164   3,392,144
2000   2,114,420   1,003,691    233,858   3,351,969
2001   2,043,478   1,005,592    276,434   3,325,504
2002   2,000,478   1,010,791    293,323   3,304,592
2003   1,914,425     997,398    288,395   3,200,218
2004   1,875,752     988,995    280,584   3,145,331
2005   1,745,324     943,426    249,948   2,938,698
2006   1,701,861     922,836    244,266   2,868,963
2007   1,687,986     913,588    254,259   2,855,833
Just taking the totals, Scouting membership is down 8.4% since 1998;
not as dramatic as the Canadian numbers, but down nonetheless.
8.4% = bad math ???
                           cub scouts    boy scouts   venturing  total
                  1998       2171987      1023442     188010     3383439
                  1999       2166289      1023691     202164     3392144
                  2000       2114420      1003691     233858     3351969
                  2001       2043478      1005592     276434     3325504
                  2002       2000478      1010791     293323     3304592
                  2003       1914425       997398     288395     3200218
                  2004       1875752       988995     280584     3145331
                  2005       1745324       943426     249948     2938698
                  2006       1701861       922836     244266     2868963
                  2007       1687986       913588     254259     2855833
% loss                       22.28        10.73     -35.24       15.59
(since 1998)
You're right -- my bad.
Scouter Chris
2008-08-14 08:54:25 UTC
Permalink
Scouts Canada's membership decline has been significant in many parts
of the country and is due to many factors that can be linked to the
Baby Boomer cultural shift. It's comparable to the decline in
participation in service clubs, church attendance, and amateur sports
participation in Canada during the same period. People just stopped
doing things as a community.

While Scouts Canada has not, in recent memory, had an "anti-gay"
policy, it's refusal to adopt such a policy *has* hurt relationships
with the Mormon and Salvation Army churches, leading to a number of
group closures in specific parts of the country. In the rest of the
country it has had no effect. In fact, it's a constant uphill battle
to convince people that we don't have the same policies here as the
BSA has.

The decision to allow girls, dating back to 1967 when girls were first
allowed into Rovers at the request of the youth members, and coming
into full force at all levels, without option, in 1997 did not have a
negative effect on membership except among a group of long-serving
volunteers who had largely ceased to be of use to the youth in the
movement, and instead were collecting awards and service bars.

In Canada, membership is beginning to trend upwards in specific parts
of the country again, specifically in the maritimes, Ottawa, Calgary,
and Vancouver. In other parts of the country, the decline is
continuing, but at a slower rate than in the past.

If Scouts Canada had policies similar to what the BSA has, my personal
feeling is that it would be more difficult to reverse the decline and
begin to gain in membership.

We can't make a difference in the life of a youth if they don't belong
to Scouting.

Loading...