Outlook for Citizenship MBs not good . . .

[Fred Goodwin, CMA]

According to a recent study of civics literacy by the Intercollegiate
Studies Institute:

* Fewer than half of all Americans can name all three branches of
government, a minimal requirement for understanding America’s
constitutional system.

* Only 24% of college graduates know the First Amendment prohibits
establishing an official religion for the United States.

* Nearly a third of the respondents failed to name two of America's
enemies in World War Two; 22% of college graduates did not answer that
question successfully.

* 54% of respondents (and only 44% of 18- to 34-year-olds) knew that
Congress shares foreign policy power with the President; nearly a
quarter (and almost a third of elected officials!) believed Congress
shares such power with the United Nations.

* Thirty percent of elected officials do not know that “life, liberty,
and the pursuit of happiness” are the inalienable rights referred to
in the Declaration of Independence.

* Only 21% of those surveyed know that the phrase “government of the
people, by the people, for the people” comes from Lincoln’s Gettysburg
Address.

* Although Congress has voted twice in the last eight years to approve
foreign wars, only 53% of those surveyed know that the power to
declare war belongs to Congress. Almost 40% incorrectly believe it
belongs to the President.

* Less than one in five of those surveyed know that the phrase “a wall
of separation” between church and state comes from a letter by Thomas
Jefferson. Almost half incorrectly believe it can be found in the
Constitution.

http://www.isi.org/

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 20:11:36 -0700 (PDT), "Fred Goodwin, CMA"

Post by Fred Goodwin, CMA
According to a recent study of civics literacy by the Intercollegiate

The article doesn't explain the subject. Scouts who passed the
Citizenship MBs might be the ones who knew the answers. I know a
number of very successful people who would have a tough times
answering all the questions.

Of course there is no doubt of the dumbing down of America for several
decades. How else could a socialist like Obamoron have been elected.

Hugh

[Fred Goodwin]

Post by J. Hugh Sullivan
The article doesn't explain the subject. Scouts who passed the
Citizenship MBs might be the ones who knew the answers. I know a
number of very successful people who would have a tough times
answering all the questions.
Of course there is no doubt of the dumbing down of America for several
decades. How else could a socialist like Obamoron have been elected.

I was hoping that this wouldn't devolve into a partisan debate --
after all, according to the ISI website, Republicans and Democrats did
about equally poorly on the 33 questions. I think the issue of civic
illiteracy poses a problem for the governance of our cities, states
and country that crosses party lines.

And I think you're right: hopefully those Scouts who earn their Cit
MBs will raise the average score, but given the woeful state of public
education, I don't hold out much hope . . .

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Fri, 5 Jun 2009 21:49:19 -0700 (PDT), Fred Goodwin

Post by Fred Goodwin

Post by J. Hugh Sullivan
The article doesn't explain the subject. Scouts who passed the
Citizenship MBs might be the ones who knew the answers. I know a
number of very successful people who would have a tough times
answering all the questions.
Of course there is no doubt of the dumbing down of America for several
decades. How else could a socialist like Obamoron have been elected.

I was hoping that this wouldn't devolve into a partisan debate --

I don't expect to debate the issue, Fred, But socisalism is as
un-American as it gets, and I will ridicule the effort when I can.

Post by Fred Goodwin
after all, according to the ISI website, Republicans and Democrats did
about equally poorly on the 33 questions. I think the issue of civic
illiteracy poses a problem for the governance of our cities, states
and country that crosses party lines.
And I think you're right: hopefully those Scouts who earn their Cit
MBs will raise the average score, but given the woeful state of public
education, I don't hold out much hope . . .

I appreciate you interesting posts.

Hugh

[Stephen Henning]

Post by J. Hugh Sullivan

Post by Fred Goodwin

Post by J. Hugh Sullivan
The article doesn't explain the subject. Scouts who passed the
Citizenship MBs might be the ones who knew the answers. I know a
number of very successful people who would have a tough times
answering all the questions.
Of course there is no doubt of the dumbing down of America for several
decades. How else could a socialist like Obamoron have been elected.

I was hoping that this wouldn't devolve into a partisan debate --

I don't expect to debate the issue, Fred, But socisalism is as
un-American as it gets, and I will ridicule the effort when I can.

Hi Hugh

You should study for the Citizenship in the Nation MB again. Socialism
is only un-American if it is voted down in a referendum. We are a
democracy. We are not a constitutional capitalist state. Under our
democratic form of government, we can adopt as much socialism and
capitalism as we want. For example our military is socialist. Our
banks are capitalist. Guess which one screwed up and had to rely on the
government to bail it out. So no issue is black and white. I am not
saying the government should take over the banks, but when the FDIC sees
a bank that has lost our money, it steps in and makes sure we get our
money. FDIC is a government agency that makes capitalism work without
using tax dollars. Without such agencies, capitalism wouldn't work any
better than it did in the Great Depression.

Getting back to Scouting, we must keep from introducing our biases when
we work with the Scouts. They must be exposed to all sides of issues
and make their own decisions.

Post by J. Hugh Sullivan

Post by Fred Goodwin
after all, according to the ISI website, Republicans and Democrats did
about equally poorly on the 33 questions. I think the issue of civic
illiteracy poses a problem for the governance of our cities, states
and country that crosses party lines.
And I think you're right: hopefully those Scouts who earn their Cit
MBs will raise the average score, but given the woeful state of public
education, I don't hold out much hope . . .

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

Post by Stephen Henning

Post by J. Hugh Sullivan

Post by Fred Goodwin

Post by J. Hugh Sullivan
The article doesn't explain the subject. Scouts who passed the
Citizenship MBs might be the ones who knew the answers. I know a
number of very successful people who would have a tough times
answering all the questions.
Of course there is no doubt of the dumbing down of America for several
decades. How else could a socialist like Obamoron have been elected.

I was hoping that this wouldn't devolve into a partisan debate --

I don't expect to debate the issue, Fred, But socisalism is as
un-American as it gets, and I will ridicule the effort when I can.

Hi Hugh
You should study for the Citizenship in the Nation MB again. Socialism
is only un-American if it is voted down in a referendum. We are a
democracy. We are not a constitutional capitalist state. Under our
democratic form of government, we can adopt as much socialism and
capitalism as we want.

This country was founded on equal opportunity for life, liberty and
pursuit of happiness. None of these is guaranteed - only equal
opportunity. This means that no one is given an unfair advantage over
another. Socialism, i. e., robbing the rich to pay the poor, is
unequal opportunity

The 3 Citizenship MBs were not required when I earned Eagle- we
understood the Constitution and grew great based on the precedents
established.

Post by Stephen Henning
For example our military is socialist. Our
banks are capitalist. Guess which one screwed up and had to rely on the
government to bail it out.

Who said government had to bail them out? We all have an equal
opportunity to fail - and, again, government should not give an
unfair advantage by intervening.

Post by Stephen Henning
Getting back to Scouting, we must keep from introducing our biases when
we work with the Scouts. They must be exposed to all sides of issues
and make their own decisions.

Socialism is worshipped by the weak and irresponsible. I will not be a
party to teaching Scouts to fail in such a manner. It enables
druggies, mothers with multiple bastards by different absentee fathers
and deadbeat dads to continue to propagate.

Post by Stephen Henning

Post by J. Hugh Sullivan

Post by Fred Goodwin
after all, according to the ISI website, Republicans and Democrats did
about equally poorly on the 33 questions. I think the issue of civic
illiteracy poses a problem for the governance of our cities, states
and country that crosses party lines.

I don't talk Reps and Dems - I talk socialism and
capitalism/democracy. Obamoron is a socialist.

Post by Stephen Henning

Post by J. Hugh Sullivan

Post by Fred Goodwin
And I think you're right: hopefully those Scouts who earn their Cit
MBs will raise the average score, but given the woeful state of public
education, I don't hold out much hope . . .

Have you considered the possibility that the woeful state of public
education is due to creeping socialism? It's not that way in the
private schools.

You can't make the weak strong by making the strong weak.

Hugh

[Stephen Henning]

Post by J. Hugh Sullivan
This country was founded on equal opportunity for life, liberty and
pursuit of happiness. None of these is guaranteed - only equal
opportunity. This means that no one is given an unfair advantage over
another. Socialism, i. e., robbing the rich to pay the poor, is
unequal opportunity

Hi Hugh,

Back to the books again. Socialism is government ownership, nothing
more nor nothing less. In fact a true socialist state has no taxes, so
some people can be extremely wealthy, but few that are willing to work
are poor.

Post by J. Hugh Sullivan
The 3 Citizenship MBs were not required when I earned Eagle- we
understood the Constitution and grew great based on the precedents
established.

Post by Stephen Henning
For example our military is socialist. Our
banks are capitalist. Guess which one screwed up and had to rely on the
government to bail it out.

Who said government had to bail them out? We all have an equal
opportunity to fail - and, again, government should not give an
unfair advantage by intervening.

Unfortunately, if the government didn't step in, it would have been you
and I that lost. The capitalist moguls that made the mistakes have
already profited from their mistakes and are gone with the money. All
that was left was a busted credit/banking/insurance system.
Unfortunately, neither a capitalist system nor a socialist system can
operate with out these basic institutions. The choices were clear and
approved by both parties and all presidential candidates.

Post by J. Hugh Sullivan

Post by Stephen Henning
Getting back to Scouting, we must keep from introducing our biases when
we work with the Scouts. They must be exposed to all sides of issues
and make their own decisions.

Socialism is worshipped by the weak and irresponsible. I will not be a
party to teaching Scouts to fail in such a manner. It enables
druggies, mothers with multiple bastards by different absentee fathers
and deadbeat dads to continue to propagate.

Wow, I see you are have made up you mind about all the ills in the world.


A few facts. The happiest people in the world are from the countries
that have the highest taxes in the world, the Scandinavian Countries.
This have perfected a capitalist/socialist system that insures
opportunity to everyone and security also. They have higher life
expectancies and lower infant mortality. They are strong Scouters and
have had a number of women presidents. They still have strong
industries and content workers.

Infant Mortality: USA .7%; Scandinavia .3%
Life Expectancy: USA 77; Scandinavia 80

Again, nothing is black and white and people who think that it is are
woefully uneducated.

Post by J. Hugh Sullivan

Post by Stephen Henning

Post by Fred Goodwin
after all, according to the ISI website, Republicans and Democrats did
about equally poorly on the 33 questions. I think the issue of civic
illiteracy poses a problem for the governance of our cities, states
and country that crosses party lines.

I don't talk Reps and Dems - I talk socialism and
capitalism/democracy. Obamoron is a socialist.

You obviously don't have the vaguest idea what socialism is.

Post by J. Hugh Sullivan

Post by Stephen Henning

Post by Fred Goodwin
And I think you're right: hopefully those Scouts who earn their Cit
MBs will raise the average score, but given the woeful state of public
education, I don't hold out much hope . . .

Have you considered the possibility that the woeful state of public
education is due to creeping socialism? It's not that way in the
private schools.
You can't make the weak strong by making the strong weak.

Lets, see you say that people that pay to go to school do better. That
is a no-brainer. Maybe if we charged more they would earn even more ;)
So if we raise school taxes, schools get better. What a phenomenal
concept. We get what we pay for. When we cut taxes we get dumber and
cut taxes even more. WOW!

Post by J. Hugh Sullivan
Hugh

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

Post by Stephen Henning

Post by J. Hugh Sullivan
This country was founded on equal opportunity for life, liberty and
pursuit of happiness. None of these is guaranteed - only equal
opportunity. This means that no one is given an unfair advantage over
another. Socialism, i. e., robbing the rich to pay the poor, is
unequal opportunity

Hi Hugh,
Back to the books again. Socialism is government ownership, nothing
more nor nothing less. In fact a true socialist state has no taxes, so
some people can be extremely wealthy, but few that are willing to work
are poor.

Main Entry: so·cial·ism
Pronunciation: \'so-sh?-?li-z?m\
Function: noun
Date: 1837
1: any of various economic and political theories advocating
collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means
of production and distribution of goods
2 a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private
property b: a system or condition of society in which the means of
production are owned and controlled by the state
3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between
capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of
goods and pay according to work done

Back to the books indeed!

Responsible people who have talent abhor any system that prevents them
from achieving at their highest level. Irresponsible and worthless
people have to have a government safety net to exist.

I know a guy who has 9 Eagle palms. If BSA were socialistic 2 would be
taken from him and given to me so we both would have 7. That's not
really true because most Eagles don't have 5 or 9 and socialism tries
to equalize everything except opportunity to achieve at the highest
level.

In a capitalistic system, if I wanted what he had I should have worked
harder - or waited until I was 18 to join the Navy for WWII.

Post by Stephen Henning

Post by J. Hugh Sullivan
The 3 Citizenship MBs were not required when I earned Eagle- we
understood the Constitution and grew great based on the precedents
established.

Post by Stephen Henning
For example our military is socialist. Our
banks are capitalist. Guess which one screwed up and had to rely on the
government to bail it out.

Who said government had to bail them out? We all have an equal
opportunity to fail - and, again, government should not give an
unfair advantage by intervening.

Unfortunately, if the government didn't step in, it would have been you
and I that lost. The capitalist moguls that made the mistakes have
already profited from their mistakes and are gone with the money.

The capitalists did not make the mistakes. They gulled people into
buying homes they could not afford and maxing out multiple credit
cards. They preyed on the greedy idiots who wanted more than they
could afford. They preyed on the failure of creeping socialism. As
always the taxes of the responsible people will pay for it.

And, yes, three in my family were that gullible - each 2 palm Eagles.
I bailed them out - with interest bearing loans. I'm not a socialist.

Post by Stephen Henning

Post by J. Hugh Sullivan
Socialism is worshipped by the weak and irresponsible. I will not be a
party to teaching Scouts to fail in such a manner. It enables
druggies, mothers with multiple bastards by different absentee fathers
and deadbeat dads to continue to propagate.

Wow, I see you are have made up you mind about all the ills in the world.

Not everyone has limited intelligence.

Post by Stephen Henning
A few facts. The happiest people in the world are from the countries
that have the highest taxes in the world, the Scandinavian Countries.
This have perfected a capitalist/socialist system that insures
opportunity to everyone and security also. They have higher life
expectancies and lower infant mortality. They are strong Scouters and
have had a number of women presidents. They still have strong
industries and content workers.
Infant Mortality: USA .7%; Scandinavia .3%
Life Expectancy: USA 77; Scandinavia 80

Do you have the figures for American and Mexican immigration to the
Scandanavian countries? Maybe we can do the illegal immigrants a favor
and send them to Sweden.

Life expectancy of 80 does not impress me. I'm past that and my wife
is less than a year away.

Post by Stephen Henning
Again, nothing is black and white and people who think that it is are
woefully uneducated.

Well, I only have a BS in math, but I hired a number of people with
their Masters and never felt threatened.

Post by Stephen Henning

Post by J. Hugh Sullivan
Have you considered the possibility that the woeful state of public
education is due to creeping socialism? It's not that way in the
private schools.
You can't make the weak strong by making the strong weak.

Lets, see you say that people that pay to go to school do better. That
is a no-brainer. Maybe if we charged more they would earn even more ;)
So if we raise school taxes, schools get better. What a phenomenal
concept. We get what we pay for. When we cut taxes we get dumber and
cut taxes even more. WOW!

Only as long as the people are competitive. If they only have to show
up to daw their pay (socialism) throwing money at them doesn't make
better teachers.

Hugh

[Stephen Henning]

Post by J. Hugh Sullivan
The capitalists did not make the mistakes. They gulled people into
buying homes they could not afford and maxing out multiple credit
cards. They preyed on the greedy idiots who wanted more than they
could afford. They preyed on the failure of creeping socialism. As
always the taxes of the responsible people will pay for it.

And, in doing so, the capitalists ruined their companies and the US
economy. They only saw the $$ in their pockets. They had no concern
for their companies nor their country. Fortunately people like you do
have a concern for their country and practice Scout ethics, not greed
ethics.

Until we can get everyone in Scouts, we will need to have Big Brother
watching over unscrupulous greedy capitalists that think nothing of
ruining their companies, their employees' lives, their customers' lives,
and the country as a whole to fill their pockets with $$.

By the way, the Fed (Federal Reserve Bank who runs the FDIC, etc.) does
not use any tax money. In fact it earns money for the government. If
the buyouts are successful, they will replace the money they got from
Congress, since Congress only made loans, not gifts.

We wouldn't be in this mess if we didn't let Clinton deregulate banking.
Even though he did balance the budget, he did let the dogs loose and
they are biting everyone.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

Post by Stephen Henning

Post by J. Hugh Sullivan
The capitalists did not make the mistakes. They gulled people into
buying homes they could not afford and maxing out multiple credit
cards. They preyed on the greedy idiots who wanted more than they
could afford. They preyed on the failure of creeping socialism. As
always the taxes of the responsible people will pay for it.

And, in doing so, the capitalists ruined their companies and the US
economy. They only saw the $$ in their pockets. They had no concern
for their companies nor their country. Fortunately people like you do
have a concern for their country and practice Scout ethics, not greed
ethics.
Until we can get everyone in Scouts, we will need to have Big Brother
watching over unscrupulous greedy capitalists that think nothing of
ruining their companies, their employees' lives, their customers' lives,
and the country as a whole to fill their pockets with $$.

I agree that greed was the problem in the financial area. But greedy
people can't take advantage of people who act intelligently. If one
can't aford a $900,000 house he should not buy one. If one can't
control his budget he should not have a credit card.

People let themselves be gulled into spending as if there was no
tomorrow. And stupid stockholders did approve CEO salaries and
bonuses.

I am adamantly against government haveing any control over business.
On the other hand it is absurd for a CEO of a money losing company to
draw an exhorbitant salary and bonus. But sharpies have always preyed
on idiots and they always will.

As involved as I have been in BSA, Scouting is not the sole answer.
Until we can control multiple illegitimate births by multiple absentee
fathers I think we will continue to go down the toilet.

Hugh

[b***@pobox.com]

Post by Stephen Henning

Post by J. Hugh Sullivan
The capitalists did not make the mistakes. They gulled people into
buying homes they could not afford and maxing out multiple credit
cards. They preyed on the greedy idiots who wanted more than they
could afford. They preyed on the failure of creeping socialism. As
always the taxes of the responsible people will pay for it.

And, in doing so, the capitalists ruined their companies and the US
economy. They only saw the $$ in their pockets. They had no concern
for their companies nor their country. Fortunately people like you do
have a concern for their country and practice Scout ethics, not greed
ethics.

Who do you think built the economy in the first place?

Post by Stephen Henning
Until we can get everyone in Scouts, we will need to have Big Brother
watching over unscrupulous greedy capitalists that think nothing of
ruining their companies, their employees' lives, their customers' lives,
and the country as a whole to fill their pockets with $$.

The last thing in the world that we need is to be told what to do by
someone so inept and stupid that he can't hack it in the real world
and is forced to work for the government.

Post by Stephen Henning
By the way, the Fed (Federal Reserve Bank who runs the FDIC, etc.) does
not use any tax money. In fact it earns money for the government. If
the buyouts are successful, they will replace the money they got from
Congress, since Congress only made loans, not gifts.

That's some good shit that you're smoking.

Post by Stephen Henning
We wouldn't be in this mess if we didn't let Clinton deregulate banking.
Even though he did balance the budget, he did let the dogs loose and
they are biting everyone.

Is all your education this superficial? Clinton NEVER truly balanced
the budget. He merely juggled the books.

[Chicago Paddling-Fishing]

Post by Stephen Henning

Post by J. Hugh Sullivan
The capitalists did not make the mistakes. They gulled people into
buying homes they could not afford and maxing out multiple credit
cards. They preyed on the greedy idiots who wanted more than they
could afford. They preyed on the failure of creeping socialism. As
always the taxes of the responsible people will pay for it.

And, in doing so, the capitalists ruined their companies and the US
economy. They only saw the $$ in their pockets. They had no concern
for their companies nor their country. Fortunately people like you do
have a concern for their country and practice Scout ethics, not greed
ethics.

But the capitalists did make mistakes in doing that, it was, after all
the banks that approved those loans to people who couldn't afford them
under the false pretense that as long as the values went up, there was
money in it for them... and when they got in trouble they turned to
taxpayers for a bailout!

Post by Stephen Henning
Until we can get everyone in Scouts, we will need to have Big Brother
watching over unscrupulous greedy capitalists that think nothing of
ruining their companies, their employees' lives, their customers' lives,
and the country as a whole to fill their pockets with $$.
By the way, the Fed (Federal Reserve Bank who runs the FDIC, etc.) does
not use any tax money. In fact it earns money for the government. If
the buyouts are successful, they will replace the money they got from
Congress, since Congress only made loans, not gifts.

Not exactly true, FDIC does collect fees from banks but is also a line item
in the federal budget, meaning we are paying for it as well... Federal Reserve
bank isn't on the federal budget.

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy10/pdf/ap_cd_rom/27_1.pdf page 721 starts
the FDIC budget. True, some of the money is sourced from the insurance fund,
but some is sourced from the federal budget (hence it's part of the budget).

If you poke around a little you'll see the big banks got them to change the
insurance formula in 2005 to their benefit I believe...

Post by Stephen Henning
We wouldn't be in this mess if we didn't let Clinton deregulate banking.
Even though he did balance the budget, he did let the dogs loose and
they are biting everyone.

Well, I believe it was the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act that you are refering to
and those are all very republican names. President Clinton signed the law,
but if you were to look back you'd see the republican party controled the
house and the senate... there were enough votes to override any veto...

Much as the S&L crisis came about when the republicans removed regulations
on S&L's in the 80's, the current crisis came about because republicans
removed regulations from banks in 1999...

[l***@invalid.com]

On Fri, 5 Jun 2009 21:49:19 -0700 (PDT), Fred Goodwin

Post by Fred Goodwin

Post by J. Hugh Sullivan
The article doesn't explain the subject. Scouts who passed the
Citizenship MBs might be the ones who knew the answers. I know a
number of very successful people who would have a tough times
answering all the questions.
Of course there is no doubt of the dumbing down of America for several
decades. How else could a socialist like Obamoron have been elected.

I was hoping that this wouldn't devolve into a partisan debate --
after all, according to the ISI website, Republicans and Democrats did

You cant go to any newsgroup or web group without partisan idiots. I
just killfile any and all of them immediately. Personally I dislike
all politicians, especially those from both major parties. I always
vote independent.

Now, why the heck is a political discussion on a scouting group
anyhow? When I was in scouts I learned camping, knot tying, safe use
of a gun, fire building/cooking, lawnmower repair, and how to build
bird houses, identify animals, and other fun things. Politics were
never even mentioned (thank God).

Post by Fred Goodwin
about equally poorly on the 33 questions. I think the issue of civic
illiteracy poses a problem for the governance of our cities, states
and country that crosses party lines.
And I think you're right: hopefully those Scouts who earn their Cit
MBs will raise the average score, but given the woeful state of public
education, I don't hold out much hope . . .

[Stephen Henning]

Post by l***@invalid.com
You cant go to any newsgroup or web group without partisan idiots. I
just killfile any and all of them immediately. Personally I dislike
all politicians, especially those from both major parties. I always
vote independent.
Now, why the heck is a political discussion on a scouting group
anyhow? When I was in scouts I learned camping, knot tying, safe use
of a gun, fire building/cooking, lawnmower repair, and how to build
bird houses, identify animals, and other fun things. Politics were
never even mentioned (thank God).

Then you never made Eagle. The 3 citizenship MBs are required for Eagle.
One requirement is visiting a meeting of political officials.

[Naraht]

Post by Stephen Henning
Then you never made Eagle. The 3 citizenship MBs are required for Eagle.
One requirement is visiting a meeting of political officials.

I presume the requirement is either in Cit Community or Cit Nation,
not both. Prior to 1965, it was possible to get eagle having only
three of the four in the Citizenship group. (Cit Home, Cit Community,
Cit Nation, and World Brotherhood). Prior to 1958, Civics was required
instead of the Citizenship grouping, I have no idea if the requirement
was there. Civics was first required in 1915, a year *after* the first
eagles were earned.

So if it isn't in both Cit Community and Cit Nation, and was, as I
feel likely, in Civics, that means that Eagles could have been earned
in 1914-1915 and 1958-1965 without going to a meeting of political
officials.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

Post by Naraht

Post by Stephen Henning
Then you never made Eagle. The 3 citizenship MBs are required for Eagle.
One requirement is visiting a meeting of political officials.

I presume the requirement is either in Cit Community or Cit Nation,
not both. Prior to 1965, it was possible to get eagle having only
three of the four in the Citizenship group. (Cit Home, Cit Community,
Cit Nation, and World Brotherhood). Prior to 1958, Civics was required
instead of the Citizenship grouping, I have no idea if the requirement
was there. Civics was first required in 1915, a year *after* the first
eagles were earned.
So if it isn't in both Cit Community and Cit Nation, and was, as I
feel likely, in Civics, that means that Eagles could have been earned
in 1914-1915 and 1958-1965 without going to a meeting of political
officials.

The 1940 Handbook for Boys, that I used to earn Eagle in 1943,
requires...

Civics, Requirement 4: "Attend a political meeting of a city or town
council, a session of court, or other public civic meeting, and make a
full report of his observations."

So, in Civics, the meeting did not have to be political.

My sons earned Eagle in the late 70s and did not have to attend a
"political" meeting.

Two of my grandsons earned Eagle in the late 90s and did not have to
attend a "political" meeting,

Political meetings were one of the options in every case.

Hugh

[Stephen Henning]

Post by Naraht

Post by Stephen Henning
Then you never made Eagle. The 3 citizenship MBs are required for Eagle.
One requirement is visiting a meeting of political officials.

I presume the requirement is either in Cit Community or Cit Nation,
not both. Prior to 1965, it was possible to get eagle having only
three of the four in the Citizenship group. (Cit Home, Cit Community,
Cit Nation, and World Brotherhood). Prior to 1958, Civics was required
instead of the Citizenship grouping, I have no idea if the requirement
was there. Civics was first required in 1915, a year *after* the first
eagles were earned.
So if it isn't in both Cit Community and Cit Nation, and was, as I
feel likely, in Civics, that means that Eagles could have been earned
in 1914-1915 and 1958-1965 without going to a meeting of political
officials.

All 3 citizenships are required now, Community, Nation, and World.

[Chicago Paddling-Fishing]

Fred Goodwin, CMA <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
<snip>
Hi Fred,

When you came to Illinois a year or so to visit, did you get out to the
scouting museum in Ottawa?

Just wondering...

[arnold]

On Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:11:36 -0700, Fred Goodwin, CMA wrote:


<snipped a bit>

Post by Fred Goodwin, CMA
* Only 24% of college graduates know the First Amendment prohibits
establishing an official religion for the United States.

Speaking of religion. Does the cub scout program still not offer a badge
for those who are Unitarians? In the mid 1980's, it wasn't available.

Also, are Eagle candidates, at their Eagle Board of Review, still
required to profess a belief in God or a higher being?

Both topics came up in a discussion recently, and no one had any current
knowledge. All of us had been involved in the 1980's.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

Post by arnold
Also, are Eagle candidates, at their Eagle Board of Review, still
required to profess a belief in God or a higher being?

I have served on Eagle Boards in several states for about 37 years,
and chaired the Board in this District for more than 30 years. One of
the first questions we ask is for the candidate to explain his duty to
God, Country, others and self. If he is an honorable Scout he has a
duty to each.

Speaking for myself I would accept belief in a Supreme Being as
qualifying.

Hugh
Eagle, Class of 1943