EAGLE LETTERS OF RECOMMENDATION

[Mary]

Hi everyone,

I have a question regarding the recommendation letters for Eagle.
What does a boy do when he has no religious affiliation? Is a religious
letter mandatory? Does a boy just need a letter stating/showing he has
a belief in God and practices being reverent? Who is to write such a
letter if there is no spiritual advisor in his life? Can it go against
a boy if he does not go to church?
Has anyone here written a recommendation for the spiritual component
of the Eagle?
There is no time issue here, he still has time to pursue a spiritual
advisor, but I am wondering how to do this when the family chooses not
to attend church.

Mary

[Chris]

Post by Mary
Hi everyone,
I have a question regarding the recommendation letters for Eagle.
What does a boy do when he has no religious affiliation? Is a religious
letter mandatory? Does a boy just need a letter stating/showing he has
a belief in God and practices being reverent? Who is to write such a
letter if there is no spiritual advisor in his life? Can it go against
a boy if he does not go to church?
Has anyone here written a recommendation for the spiritual component
of the Eagle?
There is no time issue here, he still has time to pursue a spiritual
advisor, but I am wondering how to do this when the family chooses not
to attend church.
Mary

A Scout is reverent.

[Mary]

Expressing reverence does not necessarily mean churchgoing.

[c***@msn.com]

Has he ever gone to a church youth group with some friends? Is your
chartering organization a church by any chance? Is one of the adults
in your troop a Deacon of their church or a youth director in their
church?

Any of these people can be listed (with their permission, of course)

[Mary]

I see what you are saying as our troop is chartered by a Methodist
church. The boys have virtually no contact with anyone in the church.
As far as attending a youth group or using a Deacon of a church, the
boy would still have to develop a timely relationship of some depth, in
order to receive the letter of recommendation right?
Is a letter from a spiritual advisor mandatory for the Eagle Board of
Review?

[Robert L. Haar]

Post by Mary
Hi everyone,
I have a question regarding the recommendation letters for Eagle.
What does a boy do when he has no religious affiliation? Is a religious
letter mandatory? Does a boy just need a letter stating/showing he has
a belief in God and practices being reverent? Who is to write such a
letter if there is no spiritual advisor in his life? Can it go against
a boy if he does not go to church?

Neither Reverent nor Duty to God say that a scout has to be a member of any
religious organization. I have encountered a number of scouts whose
religious training is entirely within their families. In that situation, it
is appropriate for a parent or other family member to be the religious
reference.

See the following web page on our council's Advancement section for some
quotes from Terry Lawson when he was asked a similar question.

http://cvc-bsa.org/advancement/aa/aareferences.htm

Post by Mary
Has anyone here written a recommendation for the spiritual component
of the Eagle?

Yes. As an Ordained Elder in our church, I have done so but only after
thorough discussions with the scout about his religious beliefs.

[Mr. A]

Post by Robert L. Haar

Post by Mary
Hi everyone,
I have a question regarding the recommendation letters for Eagle.
What does a boy do when he has no religious affiliation? Is a religious
letter mandatory? Does a boy just need a letter stating/showing he has
a belief in God and practices being reverent? Who is to write such a
letter if there is no spiritual advisor in his life? Can it go against
a boy if he does not go to church?

Neither Reverent nor Duty to God say that a scout has to be a member of any
religious organization. I have encountered a number of scouts whose
religious training is entirely within their families. In that situation, it
is appropriate for a parent or other family member to be the religious
reference.
See the following web page on our council's Advancement section for some
quotes from Terry Lawson when he was asked a similar question.
http://cvc-bsa.org/advancement/aa/aareferences.htm

Post by Mary
Has anyone here written a recommendation for the spiritual component
of the Eagle?

Yes. As an Ordained Elder in our church, I have done so but only after
thorough discussions with the scout about his religious beliefs.
--
Bob Haar
CR BSA T-188, Rochester Hills, MI
District Advancement Committee, Ojibwa District, Clinton Valley Council

We have conducted one or two Eagle Boards with no religious affiliation
listed bec. the boy had none. He did have a faith in God and expressed so.
The boys were awarded the Eagle rank by the Board, District, Council and
National.
Sometimes, references listed on the application, such as educational,
religious, employment fail to follow through and send a letter even when
they are listed.
Mr. A

[J. F. Cornwall]

Post by Mary
Hi everyone,
I have a question regarding the recommendation letters for Eagle.
What does a boy do when he has no religious affiliation? Is a religious
letter mandatory? Does a boy just need a letter stating/showing he has
a belief in God and practices being reverent? Who is to write such a
letter if there is no spiritual advisor in his life? Can it go against
a boy if he does not go to church?
Has anyone here written a recommendation for the spiritual component
of the Eagle?
There is no time issue here, he still has time to pursue a spiritual
advisor, but I am wondering how to do this when the family chooses not
to attend church.
Mary

One of our close friends (a neighbor, as well) wrote a letter for our
son, who was and is in about the same boat. She described what she saw
as Josh's views, based upon the conversations they had had over the
years. The Eagle BoR accepted the letter, discussed the topic of
reverence and spirituality with him, and asked him to seek a minor
clarification on some point from our friend. The board granted him his
Eagle with the understanding that the District representative would get
a letter from our friend within two weeks. We did get the letter in,
and Josh proudly wears his Eagle.

Attending a church is *not* a requirement. Reverence is, but as you
noted elsewhere the two are not necessarily tied together.

Jim

[Stephen Henning]

Post by Mary
I have a question regarding the recommendation letters for Eagle.
What does a boy do when he has no religious affiliation? Is a religious
letter mandatory? Does a boy just need a letter stating/showing he has
a belief in God and practices being reverent? Who is to write such a
letter if there is no spiritual advisor in his life? Can it go against
a boy if he does not go to church?

The Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures (#33088D) states,

"The Boy Scouts of America has a definite position on religious
principles (see Article IX, Section 1, Clause 1). The following
interpretative statement may help clarify this position."

"1. The Boy Scouts of America does not define what constitutes belief in
God or the practice of religion."

"2. The Boy Scouts of America does not require membership in a religious
organization or association for enrollment in the movement but does
prefer, and strongly encourages, membership and participation in the
religious programs and activities of a church, synagogue, or other
religious association."

"3. The Boy Scouts of America respects the convictions of those who
exercise their constitutional freedom to practice religion as
individuals without formal membership in organized religious
organizations. In a few cases, there are those who, by conviction, do
not feel it necessary to formally belong to an organized form of
religion and seek to practice religion in accordance with their own
personal convictions. Religious organizations have commended the Boy
Scouts of America for encouraging youth to participate in organized
religious activities. However, these same organizations reject any form
of compulsion to enforce conformity to established religious practices."

"4. If a boy says he is a member of a religious body, the standards by
which he should be evaluated are those of that group. This is why the
application for the Eagle Scout Award requests a reference from his
religious leader to indicate whether he has lived up to their
expectations."

"Throughout life, Scouts are associated with people of different faiths.
Scouting believes in religious freedom, respecting others whose religion
may differ from theirs, and in the right of all to worship God in their
own way."

Bob Haar's reference: http://cvc-bsa.org/advancement/aa/aareferences.htm
states:

  ³All references must be complete on the Eagle Scout Rank Application.
Only the ³employer² reference may be omitted if the candidate has no
employer.²

     ³For the educational reference, if the Scout is home-schooled, the
person listed can be a parent/guardian, youth group leader, coach, etc.²

     ³For the religious reference, if the Scout is not part of an
organized religion, he should list a parent/guardian and request a
reference letter stating that they are not currently affiliated with an
organized religion and that he does have a belief in God (or Higher Form
of Being).²

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

Post by Stephen Henning

Post by Mary
I have a question regarding the recommendation letters for Eagle.
What does a boy do when he has no religious affiliation? Is a religious
letter mandatory? Does a boy just need a letter stating/showing he has
a belief in God and practices being reverent? Who is to write such a
letter if there is no spiritual advisor in his life? Can it go against
a boy if he does not go to church?

The Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures (#33088D) states,
"The Boy Scouts of America has a definite position on religious
principles (see Article IX, Section 1, Clause 1). The following
interpretative statement may help clarify this position."
"1. The Boy Scouts of America does not define what constitutes belief in
God or the practice of religion."
"2. The Boy Scouts of America does not require membership in a religious
organization or association for enrollment in the movement but does
prefer, and strongly encourages, membership and participation in the
religious programs and activities of a church, synagogue, or other
religious association."
"3. The Boy Scouts of America respects the convictions of those who
exercise their constitutional freedom to practice religion as
individuals without formal membership in organized religious
organizations. In a few cases, there are those who, by conviction, do
not feel it necessary to formally belong to an organized form of
religion and seek to practice religion in accordance with their own
personal convictions. Religious organizations have commended the Boy
Scouts of America for encouraging youth to participate in organized
religious activities. However, these same organizations reject any form
of compulsion to enforce conformity to established religious practices."
"4. If a boy says he is a member of a religious body, the standards by
which he should be evaluated are those of that group. This is why the
application for the Eagle Scout Award requests a reference from his
religious leader to indicate whether he has lived up to their
expectations."
"Throughout life, Scouts are associated with people of different faiths.
Scouting believes in religious freedom, respecting others whose religion
may differ from theirs, and in the right of all to worship God in their
own way."
Bob Haar's reference: http://cvc-bsa.org/advancement/aa/aareferences.htm
  ³All references must be complete on the Eagle Scout Rank Application.
Only the ³employer² reference may be omitted if the candidate has no
employer.²
     ³For the educational reference, if the Scout is home-schooled, the
person listed can be a parent/guardian, youth group leader, coach, etc.²
     ³For the religious reference, if the Scout is not part of an
organized religion, he should list a parent/guardian and request a
reference letter stating that they are not currently affiliated with an
organized religion and that he does have a belief in God (or Higher Form
of Being).²
--
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~scouters

The vast majority of Eagle candidates in this District for more than
30 years have furnished a specific religious reference. I can think of
no more than 3 who did not during that period and they were not
atheists or agnostics - their families just didn't go to church so
they didn't.

Those who do not furnish a reference from a recognized religious
leader are quizzed very thoroughly and at length about their personal
religious beliefs.

Hugh

[c***@msn.com]

I keep seeing "reference letters" listed. I have served on Eagle
Boards now for about 4 years as Troop Committee Chair and we don't
require actual letters and neither do the various District
Representatives that attend our Eagle Boards.

We just check that they do have names & numbers listed for their
references and if the religious name is missing, one of the adults in
our troop that is on the church council speaks with the boy and then
lists their name as the religious reference. (This is done before the
BoR)

Are actual letters the norm??

[Stephen Henning]

Post by c***@msn.com
Are actual letters the norm??

That is the council's call.

From "Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures":

"When the completed application is received at the council service
center, its contents will be verified and the references contacted. The
council advancement committee or its designee contacts the person listed
as a reference on the Eagle Scout Rank Application either by letter,
form, or telephone checklist. The council determines the method or
methods to be used. The candidate should have contacted those
individuals listed as references before including their names on the
application. The candidates should not be involved personally in
transmitting any correspondence between persons listed as references and
the council service center."

[Robert L. Haar]

Post by c***@msn.com
I keep seeing "reference letters" listed. I have served on Eagle
Boards now for about 4 years as Troop Committee Chair and we don't
require actual letters and neither do the various District
Representatives that attend our Eagle Boards.
We just check that they do have names & numbers listed for their
references and if the religious name is missing, one of the adults in
our troop that is on the church council speaks with the boy and then
lists their name as the religious reference. (This is done before the
BoR)

The method of checking references is up to the council. Ours uses written
letters.

If your council does not require letters, how do you actually check them? I
hope someone does more than just look to see the the liens on the
application have names and phone numbers written in.

Refer to the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures booklet for more
information.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

Post by c***@msn.com
I keep seeing "reference letters" listed. I have served on Eagle
Boards now for about 4 years as Troop Committee Chair and we don't
require actual letters and neither do the various District
Representatives that attend our Eagle Boards.
We just check that they do have names & numbers listed for their
references and if the religious name is missing, one of the adults in
our troop that is on the church council speaks with the boy and then
lists their name as the religious reference. (This is done before the
BoR)
Are actual letters the norm??

I believe your question to me was answered by others.

Suffice it to say that our Council decided more than 30 years ago to
require letters. We ask for one from a religious leader, a school
official, a person outside the family who knows him and an employer if
he works. Most candidates furnish even more letters.

Hugh

[Stan]

A few years ago, our Council changed the written reference policy from
a specific three (mommy/daddy, religious, teacher) to any three the boy
lists on the application, so we don't have this problem. I did find
out from one of our former District Advancement Chairs that he has been
at BofR's where the religious reference wrote, "I really don't know
this boy."

In one case where I knew the family was "unaffiliated", I asked the boy
the following questions, and had a letter ready for the BofR signed by
me, the Scoutmaster, and the Troop Committee Chairman attesting to his
answers-

1. Do you consider yourself one of the "we" in whom "In God We
Trust"?
2. Are you part of the nation that's "One Nation, under God"?
3. Do you feel that you're accountable to a Supreme Being for your
actions?

I believe he put down a neighbor, who sometimes spoke about religion,
as his reference. As far as discussing it at Boards of Review, it's
not something we're going to dwell on, and in fact it often isn't even
mentioned (i.e., what's there to mention; from the paperwork, we're
satisfied he met the requirement).

One other point involving references. I have a 12th grader who'll be
ready for his BofR in about a month. I told him not to ask any
teachers, because they're probably busy enough writing college
recommendation letters now.

Stan Krieger
Eagle Advisor

Post by Mary
Hi everyone,
I have a question regarding the recommendation letters for Eagle.
What does a boy do when he has no religious affiliation? Is a religious
letter mandatory? Does a boy just need a letter stating/showing he has
a belief in God and practices being reverent? Who is to write such a
letter if there is no spiritual advisor in his life? Can it go against
a boy if he does not go to church?
Has anyone here written a recommendation for the spiritual component
of the Eagle?
There is no time issue here, he still has time to pursue a spiritual
advisor, but I am wondering how to do this when the family chooses not
to attend church.
Mary