Discussion:
Alternative to Girl Scouts
(too old to reply)
Mary Ellen
2004-03-05 04:56:00 UTC
Permalink
Have you heard of the American Heritage Girls? I just discovered them
tonight, and will be checking them out.
My daughter is a Daisy Scout, and I just recently started reading
Girl Scout Leader training information, and it makes me cringe, (and I
am a politically moderate person, not right winged or conservative)! I
want an experience for my daughter similar to the experience my son
had in Boy Scouts.

Here is an article I found....

Conservative Alternative to Girl Scouts Builds Membership
Jason Pierce, CNSNews.com
Saturday, May 4, 2002
The Girl Scouts of America, 3.7 million strong, have in recent years
made the use of the word "God" optional in the Girl Scout Promise and
have adopted a neutral stance toward homosexuality, unlike the Boy
Scouts of America, a group that bars homosexuals from serving as scout
leaders.
Convinced that the Girl Scouts no longer reflected traditional values,
Patti Garibay of Cincinnati in 1995 developed an alternative
organization, the American Heritage Girls (http://www.ahgonline.org/).
The group started with only 100 girls from the Cincinnati area,
including surrounding areas in Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana, but today
has swelled to 1,200 members.

Now, the American Heritage Girls are looking to expand nationwide and
have already staked a claim in Santa Rosa, Calif., and Abilene, Kan.

Garibay said she was motivated to leave the Girl Scout organization
when the group decided it would take no position on homosexuality.

"That was a red flag for myself, because I had been a Girl Scout
leader for 13 years, and was very involved," Garibay said. "As a
Christian woman, I was saying, 'Boy what is going on here? This
doesn't sound right.'"

Garibay said she and some other parents began to investigate the other
changes that officials from the Girl Scouts of America were pushing.

"We realized in 1995 that we weren't going to be able to change much
with our local council, much less with our national council, so it was
time to start something new," Garibay said.

Among the first decisions made by Garibay and other organizers of the
American Heritage Girls was to create a Christian-inspired oath for
the girls: "I promise to love God, Cherish my family, Honor my
country, and Serve in my community."

Not Afraid to Promote Values

Garibay said religious faith is essential to teaching the girls about
values.

"We are based on Judeo-Christian values, non-denominational," Garibay
said. "Our troops are all chartered by churches, or private schools,
civic groups; therefore they own the program, just like the Boy
Scouts.

"That way, if they would like to put an emphasis on a doctrinal kind
of belief, they can do so," she said.

The American Heritage Girls rely on members and friends of the
organization for financial support.

Not on the Dole

When asked whether the group is open to taking money from the
government or organizations such as United Way, Garibay said: "No. And
it's not easy not doing that.

"That would defeat our purpose if we did, because we would be tied to
non-belief systems," she said.

Garibay said the American Heritage Girls are much like the Girl
Scouts, in that girls work toward merit badges, have ranks and do
service projects. Many American Heritage Girl activities are outdoors,
to teach the girls outdoor survival skills such as horseback riding,
canoeing and the building of campfires.

But American Heritage Girls are also taught traditionally feminine
skills, such as sewing, cooking and laundry.

Choice

"Yes, we do say these are skills you are going to need, ladies, and
you might as well learn them," Garibay said. "We believe the girls
should be happy in whatever choice they make in life, and that
homemaking is just as honorable a profession as being a lawyer.

"We are certainly not putting chains on these girls, saying this is
all you can do," she said.

In July of 2001, Alexus Ranniar, a spokeswoman with the Girl Scouts of
America, said that in some areas of the country, depending on
community norms, the scouts "may offer educational workshops on topics
in human sexuality." Those topics "are discussed from an informative,
rather than an advocacy view," Ranniar said.

However, because Garibay believes it is the parents' responsibility to
discuss sexual matters with their children, her organization does not
address such issues, with the exception of helping girls understand
Christian, abstinence programs.

"We don't believe that you teach people about sexual function without
morality," Garibay said.

No Moral Relativism Here

"We believe that it is important to have a moral foundation when you
are doing character building with kids, and that is where we are
concerned that the Girl Scouts have fallen away to moral relativism,"
Garibay said. "There is no foundational belief that says it is right
or wrong.

"We have an emphasis on service, but also on importance of a spiritual
belief, of religion in your life, or the importance of family, and the
importance of honoring and serving your country," she said.

Ellen Christie Ach, a spokeswoman with the Girl Scouts of America,
refused to comment about the American Heritage Girls or the policy
differences between the two groups.

Copyright CNSNews.com
Alun
2004-03-05 20:09:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mary Ellen
Have you heard of the American Heritage Girls? I just discovered them
tonight, and will be checking them out.
My daughter is a Daisy Scout, and I just recently started reading
Girl Scout Leader training information, and it makes me cringe, (and I
am a politically moderate person, not right winged or conservative)! I
want an experience for my daughter similar to the experience my son
had in Boy Scouts.
Here is an article I found....
Conservative Alternative to Girl Scouts Builds Membership
Jason Pierce, CNSNews.com
Saturday, May 4, 2002
The Girl Scouts of America, 3.7 million strong, have in recent years
made the use of the word "God" optional in the Girl Scout Promise and
have adopted a neutral stance toward homosexuality, unlike the Boy
Scouts of America, a group that bars homosexuals from serving as scout
leaders.
Convinced that the Girl Scouts no longer reflected traditional values,
Patti Garibay of Cincinnati in 1995 developed an alternative
organization, the American Heritage Girls (http://www.ahgonline.org/).
The group started with only 100 girls from the Cincinnati area,
including surrounding areas in Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana, but today
has swelled to 1,200 members.
Now, the American Heritage Girls are looking to expand nationwide and
have already staked a claim in Santa Rosa, Calif., and Abilene, Kan.
Garibay said she was motivated to leave the Girl Scout organization
when the group decided it would take no position on homosexuality.
"That was a red flag for myself, because I had been a Girl Scout
leader for 13 years, and was very involved," Garibay said. "As a
Christian woman, I was saying, 'Boy what is going on here? This
doesn't sound right.'"
Garibay said she and some other parents began to investigate the other
changes that officials from the Girl Scouts of America were pushing.
"We realized in 1995 that we weren't going to be able to change much
with our local council, much less with our national council, so it was
time to start something new," Garibay said.
Among the first decisions made by Garibay and other organizers of the
American Heritage Girls was to create a Christian-inspired oath for
the girls: "I promise to love God, Cherish my family, Honor my
country, and Serve in my community."
Not Afraid to Promote Values
Garibay said religious faith is essential to teaching the girls about
values.
"We are based on Judeo-Christian values, non-denominational," Garibay
said. "Our troops are all chartered by churches, or private schools,
civic groups; therefore they own the program, just like the Boy
Scouts.
"That way, if they would like to put an emphasis on a doctrinal kind
of belief, they can do so," she said.
The American Heritage Girls rely on members and friends of the
organization for financial support.
Not on the Dole
When asked whether the group is open to taking money from the
government or organizations such as United Way, Garibay said: "No. And
it's not easy not doing that.
"That would defeat our purpose if we did, because we would be tied to
non-belief systems," she said.
Garibay said the American Heritage Girls are much like the Girl
Scouts, in that girls work toward merit badges, have ranks and do
service projects. Many American Heritage Girl activities are outdoors,
to teach the girls outdoor survival skills such as horseback riding,
canoeing and the building of campfires.
But American Heritage Girls are also taught traditionally feminine
skills, such as sewing, cooking and laundry.
Choice
"Yes, we do say these are skills you are going to need, ladies, and
you might as well learn them," Garibay said. "We believe the girls
should be happy in whatever choice they make in life, and that
homemaking is just as honorable a profession as being a lawyer.
"We are certainly not putting chains on these girls, saying this is
all you can do," she said.
In July of 2001, Alexus Ranniar, a spokeswoman with the Girl Scouts of
America, said that in some areas of the country, depending on
community norms, the scouts "may offer educational workshops on topics
in human sexuality." Those topics "are discussed from an informative,
rather than an advocacy view," Ranniar said.
However, because Garibay believes it is the parents' responsibility to
discuss sexual matters with their children, her organization does not
address such issues, with the exception of helping girls understand
Christian, abstinence programs.
"We don't believe that you teach people about sexual function without
morality," Garibay said.
No Moral Relativism Here
"We believe that it is important to have a moral foundation when you
are doing character building with kids, and that is where we are
concerned that the Girl Scouts have fallen away to moral relativism,"
Garibay said. "There is no foundational belief that says it is right
or wrong.
"We have an emphasis on service, but also on importance of a spiritual
belief, of religion in your life, or the importance of family, and the
importance of honoring and serving your country," she said.
Ellen Christie Ach, a spokeswoman with the Girl Scouts of America,
refused to comment about the American Heritage Girls or the policy
differences between the two groups.
Copyright CNSNews.com
All fine reasons why my daughter will be staying in Girl Scouts
John O
2004-03-05 20:19:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alun
All fine reasons why my daughter will be staying in Girl Scouts
First, please, let's not turn this into a debate on this specific subject.

Second, didja have to quote the whole thing? ;-)

-John O
Mary Ellen
2004-03-06 04:13:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by John O
First, please, let's not turn this into a debate on this specific subject.
Second, didja have to quote the whole thing? ;-)
-John O
I am looking for debate, but what do you mean specific subject. We
are currently in Girl Scouts, and I have no immediate plans to leave.
But, I do not see us staying beyond Brownies, which is three years
down the road.
I am a moderate person, and I find Girl Scouts out of touch with
Middle America. I recently had leadership thrust upon me, (leader
quit) and I had to go through training. If I hear the word diversity
again, I think I will scream.
I am not impressed with the Studio 2-b concept, as I feel it phases
adult parent volunteers out, in lieu of young adult mentors.
My son just received his AOL from Cub Scouting. I much prefer the
Boy Scout curriculum. It is very proactive. Girl Scouts are very
reactive. I swear, if you follow the curriculum, you sit around ALOT,
and discuss how things make you feel.
I am not anti Planned Parenthood, but I do not think Girl Scouts
should be affiliated with this organization. I am not anti-gay, but I
do not think sexuality should be reflected in the scouting program at
all.
I want a Boy Scout program for my daughters, and Girl Scouts is NOT
the answer. It is not in the same league, nor is it of the same
caliber.
I want to know my options, and I think other people should be made
aware that there are other programs out there.
I do not want to worship at the "alter of diversity", I want to go
camping, hiking and build a freaking fire.
Alun
2004-03-06 16:13:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mary Ellen
Post by John O
First, please, let's not turn this into a debate on this specific subject.
Second, didja have to quote the whole thing? ;-)
-John O
I am looking for debate, but what do you mean specific subject. We
are currently in Girl Scouts, and I have no immediate plans to leave.
But, I do not see us staying beyond Brownies, which is three years
down the road.
I am a moderate person, and I find Girl Scouts out of touch with
Middle America. I recently had leadership thrust upon me, (leader
quit) and I had to go through training. If I hear the word diversity
again, I think I will scream.
I am not impressed with the Studio 2-b concept, as I feel it phases
adult parent volunteers out, in lieu of young adult mentors.
My son just received his AOL from Cub Scouting. I much prefer the
Boy Scout curriculum. It is very proactive. Girl Scouts are very
reactive. I swear, if you follow the curriculum, you sit around ALOT,
and discuss how things make you feel.
I am not anti Planned Parenthood, but I do not think Girl Scouts
should be affiliated with this organization. I am not anti-gay, but I
do not think sexuality should be reflected in the scouting program at
all.
I want a Boy Scout program for my daughters, and Girl Scouts is NOT
the answer. It is not in the same league, nor is it of the same
caliber.
I want to know my options, and I think other people should be made
aware that there are other programs out there.
I do not want to worship at the "alter of diversity", I want to go
camping, hiking and build a freaking fire.
If you are the leader, I can't see what stops you from camping, hiking and
building fires, 'freaking' or otherwise. My wife is a Brownie leader and
intends to do all that on a regular basis. Her camping training is next
month I think, and she intends to take the Brownies camping in May, working
gradually up to it through a sleepover and day camping. Daisies don't camp
out overnight, but neither do the boys at their age. My cousin used to take
her girl scout troop camping.

I think we may have very different ideas of the meaning of 'moderate'. You
sound like a conservative from where I sit, but you are entitled to your
opinions of course. No doubt to you we would be weirdo pinko liberals or
something.
Emma Pease
2004-03-06 23:11:03 UTC
Permalink
In response to Mary Ellen's dislike of some aspects of the the Girl
Scouts program and suggestion of American Heritage.
Post by Alun
If you are the leader, I can't see what stops you from camping, hiking and
building fires, 'freaking' or otherwise. My wife is a Brownie leader and
intends to do all that on a regular basis. Her camping training is next
month I think, and she intends to take the Brownies camping in May, working
gradually up to it through a sleepover and day camping. Daisies don't camp
out overnight, but neither do the boys at their age. My cousin used to take
her girl scout troop camping.
The Girl Scout troops I was in certainly camped, backpacked, canoed,
caved, etc. The troop is what you make it.
Post by Alun
I think we may have very different ideas of the meaning of 'moderate'. You
sound like a conservative from where I sit, but you are entitled to your
opinions of course. No doubt to you we would be weirdo pinko liberals or
something.
Agreed. I note that American Heritage Girls restricts membership to
trinitarian Christians which excludes all Jews, Buddhists, Muslims,
and some Christians among others. If she wants a strictly Christian
group, she might want to look at Pioneer Clubs
also. http://www.pioneerclubs.org/
--
\----
|\* | Emma Pease Net Spinster
|_\/ Die Luft der Freiheit weht
Paul Johnson
2004-03-06 17:16:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by John O
Post by Alun
All fine reasons why my daughter will be staying in Girl Scouts
First, please, let's not turn this into a debate on this specific subject.
Second, didja have to quote the whole thing? ;-)
No kidding. I think that person might not have been introduced to
netiquette yet.

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt

And a couple of guides to good quoting.

http://ursine.ca/jargon/html/email-style.html
http://learn.to/quote/

- --
.''`. Paul Johnson <***@ursine.ca>
: :' :
`. `'` proud Debian admin and user
`- Debian. Because it *must* work. debian.org aboutdebian.com
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